Comments on: Simple CV Spam Filter: if (certified) move(”junk”) http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/ The Quest for Software++ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:32:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Paul D. Bain http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/comment-page-1/#comment-3308 Paul D. Bain Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:44:42 +0000 http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/#comment-3308 Hiring good IT professionals is actually quite easy (and quick, too), if you know what you are doing. An IT professional's intelligence is commensurate with his understanding of the most important trend in IT today (TMITITT). If he knows a great deal about TMITITT, then he is probably very smart. If he knows little about TMITITT, then he is certainly stupid. Hence, you need only ask some questions about TMITITT. This process should not take more than 15-20 minutes, and can often be done over the phone. Hiring good IT professionals is actually quite easy (and quick, too), if you know what you are doing. An IT professional’s intelligence is commensurate with his understanding of the most important trend in IT today (TMITITT). If he knows a great deal about TMITITT, then he is probably very smart. If he knows little about TMITITT, then he is certainly stupid. Hence, you need only ask some questions about TMITITT. This process should not take more than 15-20 minutes, and can often be done over the phone.

]]> By: sirrocco http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/comment-page-1/#comment-3088 sirrocco Mon, 26 Feb 2007 05:50:41 +0000 http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/#comment-3088 Well now you tell us :). That does seem more normal and it makes ( IMHO ) for a very interesting interview. It's also allot different than "writing a login handler in five minutes" :D Well now you tell us :). That does seem more normal and it makes ( IMHO ) for a very interesting interview.
It’s also allot different than “writing a login handler in five minutes” :D

]]> By: gojko http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/comment-page-1/#comment-3008 gojko Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:54:57 +0000 http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/#comment-3008 Hi Jer <blockquote> If the interviewer really thinks this can be done in 5 minutes, then we’ve weeded out an undesireable position in the job search. </blockquote> I typically structure the questions so that the initial task can really be done in 5 minutes, if you know what you are doing. For example, if the candidate is applying for a middleware position, we would set the stage by explaining the underlying DB objects and the first task very would be simplistic - for example writing the body of <i>bool IsValid(String username, String password, DbConnection dc)</i>. I don't expect anyone to know all API details (though they will get extra points for that), but anyone who regularly writes code to access a database should know how to do it in five minutes. People who just use wizards or do not access DB regularly will need a lot more time and help - so we can see straight away if someone will fit into our teams. Once that obstacle is out of the way, we can continue talking about password hashing, changing the method to return the user ID, throw different exceptions when just the password is incorrect and when the username is not valid, keeping the user authenticated for the session etc. Hi Jer

If the interviewer really thinks this can be done in 5 minutes, then we’ve weeded out an undesireable position in the job search.

I typically structure the questions so that the initial task can really be done in 5 minutes, if you know what you are doing. For example, if the candidate is applying for a middleware position, we would set the stage by explaining the underlying DB objects and the first task very would be simplistic - for example writing the body of bool IsValid(String username, String password, DbConnection dc).

I don’t expect anyone to know all API details (though they will get extra points for that), but anyone who regularly writes code to access a database should know how to do it in five minutes. People who just use wizards or do not access DB regularly will need a lot more time and help - so we can see straight away if someone will fit into our teams.

Once that obstacle is out of the way, we can continue talking about password hashing, changing the method to return the user ID, throw different exceptions when just the password is incorrect and when the username is not valid, keeping the user authenticated for the session etc.

]]> By: jer http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/comment-page-1/#comment-3006 jer Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:11:56 +0000 http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/#comment-3006 David Maculay, You're correct - a decent login system takes longer than 5 minutes from scratch - if there is a framework where 5 minutes is realistic I want to know about it (hint: it ain't .NET). If the interviewer really thinks this can be done in 5 minutes, then we've weeded out an undesireable position in the job search. I think it's possible that, with modifications, this test could be of use. Off the top of my head: * have the applicant spend up to 15 minutes coding a basic login system (does the applicant have rudimentary competency?) * discuss the new code, its limitations, and what is necessary to complete the login system (does the applicant understand the functionality and security requirements?) David Maculay,

You’re correct - a decent login system takes longer than 5 minutes from scratch - if there is a framework where 5 minutes is realistic I want to know about it (hint: it ain’t .NET). If the interviewer really thinks this can be done in 5 minutes, then we’ve weeded out an undesireable position in the job search.

I think it’s possible that, with modifications, this test could be of use. Off the top of my head:
* have the applicant spend up to 15 minutes coding a basic login system (does the applicant have rudimentary competency?)
* discuss the new code, its limitations, and what is necessary to complete the login system (does the applicant understand the functionality and security requirements?)

]]> By: jer http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/comment-page-1/#comment-3005 jer Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:10:24 +0000 http://gojko.net/2007/02/22/simple-cv-spam-filter-if-certified-movejunk/#comment-3005 vrodguy, There is a big difference between not being able to write a login system from scratch and not having done it before. The interviewer doesn't want to know whether you can use Google or if you re-use code components, he wants to know your level of understanding of the most universal component of a multi-user app. He also wants to see if you know your development framework. If you fail at either of those basic tasks, then he can quickly know that he doesn't want you anywhere near the demanding parts of an app and has saved himself from wasting a complete interview. Take your attitude and go work someplace far from me. vrodguy,

There is a big difference between not being able to write a login system from scratch and not having done it before.

The interviewer doesn’t want to know whether you can use Google or if you re-use code components, he wants to know your level of understanding of the most universal component of a multi-user app. He also wants to see if you know your development framework. If you fail at either of those basic tasks, then he can quickly know that he doesn’t want you anywhere near the demanding parts of an app and has saved himself from wasting a complete interview.

Take your attitude and go work someplace far from me.

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